Q:Ya It was brutal of 12 to call Clara out on all those things right in front of Danny. It was pretty uncalled for. But I believe it all came from the sudden anger of the betrayal he felt when he realized Clara snuck Pink into the Tardis to basically "spy" on him, them. It was a pretty big jab to his heart. Clara kept trying to fix things the wrong way. The entire ep was such a emotional mess. I genuinely felt so bad for all three of them but 12 getting hurt this bad by Clara just breaks my heart,
Yeah, I mean that’s understandable—given the Doctor is the main character, and given that we’ve seen him go through a lot of heartache, it makes sense people will sympathize with him. I mean I sympathize with him because it’s clear to me, as it is to I think a lot of people, that his bad behavior comes from a place of deep personal pain, fear, and insecurity (although obviously that doesn’t excuse the bad behavior).
But I’m not sure there was much sudden about it. He’d been rude to Danny the moment Adrian told him that Danny had served in the military. He was even ruder when Danny accidentally foiled the first plan. I think as much or more than trying to hurt Clara, he was trying to hurt Danny with those comments—the fact that he turned to Clara after the blowout and tried to act a bit placating towards her makes me think he wasn’t expecting her to be all that hurt. Maybe a little hurt, because he knows he can be hurtful, but not as hurt as she was.
…writer Harness leaves the pairing of The Doctor and Clara in such a predicament that you’ll be wondering just what’s in store for them both and how they can continue together. Capaldi and Coleman are on top form, fully giving life to the script and its emotions.
Q:RE: The fic in question... I've wanted to say something about how out of character and sketchy it is because it is a bit of a concern, but at the same time it's sort of a kink fic? You know, if you're into that sort of thing, go for it? I just hope that people are aware that that sort of behaviour is uber sketch and that they shouldn't embrace it in reality, just fantasy. Also I had to nope out too because... well, reasons stated above (dear fic writer sorry if you read this ahh public forums)
I understand where you’re coming from, anon. I mean generally one wants to find that balance of “you do your thing and I’ll do mine” and “okay this is sketch as hell.” But I mean it’d be one thing if it were a kink fic that was on its own rather than part of what I’m thinking is a characterization trend; for me at least it’s like every third or fourth fic I click on these days has some variation of Twelve stalking or spying on Clara, and/or Clara inexplicably treating this recalcitrant child of a time lord like Studs McDaddydom.
Even if it were just that, I’d grumble on my own time and not bother anyone
but combined with the reaction to Danny—bearing in mind I have no idea what the author of the fic thinks about Danny, and am no longer, at least in this post, talking about that fic but rather fannish reaction to things—it’s just like. I don’t know. Like people want to talk about “problematic” when it’s something that gets in the way of their ship, but not when it’s a dynamic they enjoy slapping onto their ship, if that makes any sense at all.
capalxii replied to your post:yeah I’ve read that fic, I couldn’t stand it, just read 2 chapters and noped out of there, that doctor is so out of character I cant believe it, I think its based on the book “Lolita” which is itself very creepy, its so wrong, doctor who doesn’t teach that kinda stuffI KNEW EXACTLY WHAT FIC THIS WAS WITHOUT EVEN READING YOUR ORIGINAL POST AND I’D NOPED OUT OF IT AFTER HALF A CHAPTER
Okay, 1) how did I miss this the first time around
and 2) SO I HAD BEEN PLANNING ON WRITING TONIGHT BUT THEN I ENDED UP WRITING A BUNCH OF POINTLESS ESSAYS ABOUT REACTING TO DUMB THINGS IMPROPERLY INSTEAD SO IDK MAN I TRIED NOT TO DO IT BUT HERE I AM FOUR HOURS LATER
i mean as much as I grouse and grumble about certain things on my own blog untagged, I’m a big fan of people shipping their own ship. like hike your own hike except with OTPs instead of making sure you get in a certain number of miles or whatever
but like there’s this trend that’s cropped up in the ship where it’s like the creepiest characterization is presented as romantic in more than a few fics and nah no thanks. also don’t think i haven’t noticed that on the one hand people are cheering for possessive creepy Twelve while also concern trolling about Danny being “domineering” I mean it’s so goddamn obvious
This episode got so ugly for Clara, dear lord. This was just brutal.
To be fair, she deserved to be called out on her shit in front of Danny. Just…damn.
"not even in the middle of dinner"/"remember when you had two meals in a row" is about as close as you can get to a sloppy-seconds jab on a family show. Twelve was so fucking nasty, and deliberately so, here—he knew what Danny "human and thrown into something completely new and baffling" Pink was hearing in that statement, even though the audience knows that the Time Heist dinner was a group thing and the Listen back-and-forth during her date was, well, back and forth.
I went to bed not long after giving you this warning—apparently a lot of people think Danny is abusive for not wanting Clara to lie to him. Also he’s mean to the Doctor for not liking being insulted?
Mean - for not liking being insulted? Yikes. Some people will do anything to hate on a character.
And honestly, the fact that there are lots of people who think that wanting honesty in a relationship is abusive frightens me. It in no way would have been healthy for Danny to go “Oh, my girlfriend has a manipulative, obnoxious, alien best friend, no big deal.”
Yeah, there’s this thing where people are pretending to be insulted because when Danny finally stood up for himself, it was in the TARDIS and therefore he’d come into the Doctor’s house and…said a bunch of stuff that was basically true about the Doctor looking down on people and being part of an aristocratic society. I mean, even Clara had said earlier in the episode that the Doctor had a nasty habit of acting like other people are stupider than him, but when Danny says it he’s just being mean?
And a lot of people are forgetting, or just ignoring, that the Doctor had flat out admitted to Danny that he was using Clara as a decoy. Given his background, he probably knows what it’s like to keep it hidden when someone has pushed you to do something you’re not comfortable with, and telling her that he’s not able to watch her go through that? I mean you have to set limits for yourself in a relationship and how much you’re able to take on with and for someone else, it’s not like he was saying, “Don’t ever be friends with other people,” he’s looking out for his own health.
I mean, all he said was (paraphrased in my words) “I know what it’s like to be pushed to a place where I’m uncomfortable. I want you to tell me if you feel that way because I can help. If you don’t tell me, I can’t help and that’s going to be a deal-breaker because I can’t endure not being able to help the people I love.”
Nowhere does he say “You can’t see your friend again” or “I think what you’re doing is wrong” or any kind of judgmental statement or ultimatum. He doesn’t try to control her or her actions. He respects Clara’s ability to make decisions, and the fact that she’s allowed to be friends with anyone she wants. Yes, he’s concerned for her, but he’s in love with her. Why wouldn’t he be concerned? And he was the one that had been lied to, and he’s being supportive. How is wanting honest communication abusive? Hello, it’s not.
All I saw in that scene was concern for a loved one, and an offer to be supportive in case things go too far. Yes, he has her promise to be honest, but he also leaves the definition of “too far” up to Clara. All the power is in Clara’s hands whether or not she’s going to keep lying to Danny.
Yeah, I think it’s important to point out that when the Doctor snarled, “Leave us alone,” Danny was leaving them alone. And he hadn’t told Clara to think twice about what she was doing, he’d asked the Doctor if there was something he could do before he got that response. He, without question or comment, acknowledged that Clara had made a choice, that he apparently had no place in the plan they’d cooked up, and was walking away until he saw Clara being chased as part of the plan and ran to back her up. Even then, he was staying out of sight and out of mind until it became apparent that both she and the Doctor needed something to distract the blitzer. Honestly, Danny was treating Clara more like an independent adult and with more respect than a lot of people in this fandom who claim to like her.
I get that some people find the character a bit flat; they haven’t had time to do much development with him, although I do think he’s more developed than some give him credit for. I get that they rushed the pairing by writing the bulk of their relationship into a pre-credits scene. And nobody has to ship something they don’t want. But when people say that Danny was the wrong one in that episode—nah. Just nah.